NEWS FLASH Tony Lewis et al Leaving Sangoma

KNERD

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If FusionPBX weren't so darn difficult to make work in a cloud instance, I'd push movement into that and FreeSwitch. Both FusionPBX and 3CX can be quite difficult to deal with when they are not on your local LAN (at least from the standpoint of a casual user.) I have to admit that I'm very comfortable with FreePBX and Asterisk but I think both are in serious jeopardy from the open source perspective.
So difficult? Just run the install script and it's up and running fine in a few minutes.
 

kenn10

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I disagree with that. I had no problems installing on a machine on my local lan but in the cloud, I just gave up. That's why Incredible PBX is the way to go. It usually just works after you install it.

So difficult? Just run the install script and it's up and running fine in a few minutes.
 
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jerrm

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Years ago, I bought stock in Adelphia Communications, a billion dollar company, after it filed for bankruptcy. My thinking was, "a billion dollar company just does not disappear, and will recover, then stock will rise again." A few months later. POOF.
Sangoma could go poof, but asterisk and to a lesser degree FreePBX would continue in one form or another - there is too much of a non-sangoma/non-digium footprint out there.

Sangoma dying would likely be the least disruptive change. The biggest danger is half-assed support of the open source projects - providing just enough pulse that no one else is prompted/forced to pick up the slack, leaving an effectively stagnant product.

At the end of the day, even in worst case scenarios, I don't see anything happening that would make me worry about existing installs for several years. There are other viable options to easily shift gears for new deployments if need arises. The sky isn't falling, but the weather is changing.
 

smarks

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Fusionpbx is nice. Unlike fpbx, the code is simple to follow so it's relatively easy to track down bugs. It's not even that big a deal to just fork it. Updating from the GUI just uses git so it will update from whatever fork you installed it from. That is about as simple as it gets.
 
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smarks

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Part of my reluctance with FusionPBX is the attitude. Reminds me of the early Asterisk days when a handful of developers were making a nice living off configuring servers for people. The downside was they didn't want to share any of the family secrets. That's kind where the FusionPBX project is today at least from my observations.
The developer sells monthly training where you can learn about some of the more advanced things. You could probably sign up for just one month and watch all the videos if you want to learn more. Or you can figure it out yourself since it's mostly about the OS, Freeswitch, and the database and that info is all public.
 
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KNERD

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All the Fusionpbx code is open source and easy to follow. There is also a decent user manual for it. The developer sells monthly training where you can learn about some of the more advanced things. You could probably sign up for just one month and watch all the videos if you want to learn about some of the more advanced stuff. Or you can figure it out yourself since it's mostly about the OS, Freeswitch, and the database and that info is all public.

The problem is he is not getting much help, but is does try to be very very helpful. He has answered every question I ever had.



I disagree with that. I had no problems installing on a machine on my local lan but in the cloud, I just gave up. That's why Incredible PBX is the way to go. It usually just works after you install it.
Maybe you were running it on OpenVZ?
 

smarks

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Maybe you were running it on OpenVZ?
It runs just fine on OpenVZ. Not sure what he means by in the cloud. That could mean all sorts of things. I have run it on OpenVZ, KVM. On Amazon, Vultr, DigitalOcean. It's just Debian and Freeswitch with a PHP GUI and that all runs just fine "in the cloud"
 
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billsimon

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All the Fusionpbx code is open source and easy to follow. There is also a decent user manual for it. The developer sells monthly training where you can learn about some of the more advanced things. You could probably sign up for just one month and watch all the videos if you want to learn about some of the more advanced stuff. Or you can figure it out yourself since it's mostly about the OS, Freeswitch, and the database and that info is all public.
I got into a twenty questions on IRC with the developer and the cliquish members there, trying to discern how hot-desking works. It's an advertised feature but there is no documentation on it; you have to attend training to receive the info. And apparently training comes with an NDA because everyone in the chat gets coy when you ask questions that are answered in training. I would personally rather he just sold a commercial version than have the pretense of "free" while there are important features inaccessible until you pay for the training session.
 
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krzykat

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I got into a twenty questions on IRC with the developer and the cliquish members there, trying to discern how hot-desking works. It's an advertised feature but there is no documentation on it; you have to attend training to receive the info. And apparently training comes with an NDA because everyone in the chat gets coy when you ask questions that are answered in training. I would personally rather he just sold a commercial version than have the pretense of "free" while there are important features inaccessible until you pay for the training session.
That doesn't sound cool. Has anyone here taken any classes and what are their opinions of it? Did you read the source on hot-desking? (I haven't) - but I do know that often in FreePBX - when you read the source or even the config files, there are answers there that you only learn from reading.
 

wardmundy

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I got into a twenty questions on IRC with the developer and the cliquish members there, trying to discern how hot-desking works. It's an advertised feature but there is no documentation on it; you have to attend training to receive the info. And apparently training comes with an NDA because everyone in the chat gets coy when you ask questions that are answered in training. I would personally rather he just sold a commercial version than have the pretense of "free" while there are important features inaccessible until you pay for the training session.
Non-disclosure agreement on how to use an open source product. That's priceless!
 

smarks

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I would personally rather he just sold a commercial version than have the pretense of "free" while there are important features inaccessible until you pay for the training session.
Imo, that would ruin that project like it ruined so many others.

The developer is trying to make a living selling training and support so I can't really blame him for that.

There is a forum that I do not think he is involved with where you can get questions answered.

But it's like any other forum. Maybe you find the answer and maybe you don't.
 
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smarks

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Non-disclosure agreement on how to use an open source product. That's priceless!
I got into a twenty questions on IRC with the developer and the cliquish members there, trying to discern how hot-desking works. It's an advertised feature but there is no documentation on it; you have to attend training to receive the info. And apparently training comes with an NDA because everyone in the chat gets coy when you ask questions that are answered in training. I would personally rather he just sold a commercial version than have the pretense of "free" while there are important features inaccessible until you pay for the training session.
I can live with a clique. It's better than what happened with fpbx. It depends who is on IRC. When the developer is there it's usually not a good time, and he is there a lot. I got tired of him saying "sign up for my training" as a response almost every question. I don't like using IRC anyways. A forum is a better place to share info. That's probably why the developer still uses IRC.
 
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wardmundy

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I can live with a clique. It's better than what happened with fpbx. It depends who is on IRC. When the developer is there it's usually not a good time, and he is there a lot. I got tired of him saying "sign up for my training" as a response almost every question. I don't like using IRC anyways. A forum is a better place to share info. That's probably why the developer still uses IRC.
Exactly right on IRC. No record of anything for others to research. As for FreePBX, I've never known them to avoid answering any question on their forum. That's markedly different from the FusionPBX playbook.
 

smarks

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As for FreePBX, I've never known them to avoid answering any question on their forum. That's markedly different from the FusionPBX playbook.
I hope this doesn't become another Trixbox type situation where fpbx turns into abandonware
 
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smarks

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There is an interesting project called Ivozprovider. It uses Asterisk, Kamailio, CGRateS etc. These are the same people who created Sngrep. It still lacks a lot of advanced PBX features but it's a really good start and seems to work well.
 
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jerrm

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I've asked on DSL Reports so we'll see what we see.
Apparently no formal NDA, but sharing is discouraged - see https://www.pbxforums.com/threads/hotdesking.2574/post-8378.

I think @billsimon was being generous when he said "cliquish." More like cultish.

What little googling I've done show multiple comments from the developer where it feels like he's got a chip on his shoulder. Almost whining that people make thousands using his code and the only way he has to monetize is training/support.

You can argue Sangoma et al might have taken things a little too far to the commercial side, but they have made a boatload on what has been to date a very open and freely supported product.
 
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smarks

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Apparently no formal NDA, but sharing is discouraged - see https://www.pbxforums.com/threads/hotdesking.2574/post-8378.

I think @billsimon was being generous when he said "cliquish." More like cultish.

What little googling I've done show multiple comments from the developer where it feels like he's got a chip on his shoulder. Almost whining that people make thousands using his code and the only way he has to monetize is training/support.

You can argue Sangoma et al might have taken things a little too far to the commercial side, but they have made a boatload on what has been to date a very open and freely supported product.
Someone on the dslreports discussion mentioned that he may be kind of burnt out. I don't know. I think it's a better situation than what happened with fpbx so I am willing to cut him some slack.
 
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