FOOD FOR THOUGHT Is PIAF Getting Long in the Tooth?

[dbdataplus]

I guess I have no business beng in this business.
I don't eat, sleep, eat, breathe & live VOIP.
I just use it as an appliance to help people make phone calls.

This is like not being able to get a water pump for my car and being told I need to buy a new car because those are the cars they have water pumps for.

 

[billsimon]

If you don't take to heart the idea that technology evolves, and VoIP technology is evolving very quickly right now, then no, you won't be able to stay in this business.

If you want VoIP appliances then buy them. There are a lot of options.

But this forum isn't about the appliance model, it's about software and do-it-yourself.

 

[dbdataplus]

Hi Bill,
Thanks for the insight. That was a direction I'd have never considered had it not been pointed out to me.

 

[billsimon]

Hi Bill,
Thanks for the insight. That was a direction I'd have never considered had it not been pointed out to me.

Sorry to be so direct and a bit unfriendly about it. Let me try to add real value to the point about applicances though. I have some first-hand experience with the Grandstream VoIP appliances and they are very good. They're Asterisk-based, easy to configure, run on very little power, have analog ports, and show up at your door for less than $300. No licensing, etc. involved and they will run a small company easily. Just add phones.

 

[dbdataplus]

No I get it. Technology can't stand still but (and I say this coming from a career in Data General Minicomputer storage systems) -- we do the world no favors by obsoleting a technology between the time they buy it and get it home and unpack it. Does do-it-yourself mean that 3 times a month, someone comes into work and their phone has been swapped out with one that is newer, better, neater and more keen?

In my case I have four people that are running PIAF3 (green) that could one day have a system failure. In my past experience with PIAF I have been successful in restoring a backup ONLY when the versions of PIAF/FreePBX/Asterisk are the same. So what do I do? Answer: I upgrade them to PIAF 5 and THEN back them up? What could possibly go wrong?

 

[wardmundy]

Or, if you want a free option, you can move to Incredible PBX for Wazo and get automatic backups every night and free redundancy right out of the box. Lots of choices out there. Here's an article that may help you decide.

 

[dbdataplus]

Thanks Ward. I think the best option in the short term is to get a copy of a PIAF3 that was installed as a HyperV and then migrate the 4 systems to Server 2012 and run the PIAF as a VM. That way I get the consistency of the appliance model and the backup/restore capability. Then that gives us the security of replacement systems while we look for another solution entirely.

I guess my question - and I probably missed this in the discussion someplace ... is why the repos for PIAF (3) green are just ... gone. Even if it's a licensing or fee problem, I really am not seeing how someone needing to re-gen a version of the same flavor they are running is such an unreasonable or demanding request. That said, it's not like I haven't run into it before -- it's the downside/curse of free software.

 

[chris_c_]

Thanks Ward. I think the best option in the short term is to get a copy of a PIAF3 that was installed as a HyperV and then migrate the 4 systems to Server 2012 and run the PIAF as a VM. That way I get the consistency of the appliance model and the backup/restore capability. Then that gives us the security of replacement systems while we look for another solution entirely.

I guess my question - and I probably missed this in the discussion someplace ... is why the repos for PIAF (3) green are just ... gone. Even if it's a licensing or fee problem, I really am not seeing how someone needing to re-gen a version of the same flavor they are running is such an unreasonable or demanding request. That said, it's not like I haven't run into it before -- it's the downside/curse of free software.

@dbdataplus
Unless I'm missing something, an archive PIAF versions going back to 2011 (PIAF 1.7) is available here:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/pbxinaflash/files/

 

[dbdataplus]

@dbdataplus
Unless I'm missing something, an archive PIAF versions going back to 2011 (PIAF 1.7) is available here:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/pbxinaflash/files/

Thanks Chris ... we're wading through this and I think I found an ISO that gives us compatible versions ... this will give us a safety net until we migrate to the Hyper-V model.

Thing is - we've been using piaf3-install.sh to install the software on a running and fully configured Centos 6.7 system and the result is a flawless implementation that exceeds our expectations: A computer-based system that does exactly what it was intended to do!

Then suddenly, http://www.pbxinaflash.org/common/repos365.tgz (and others) are just -- gone.
No forwarding address, no goodbye note, no ability to replicate an existing system for compatibility.

The Piaf iso that contains FreePBX 2.11 and Asterisk 11 is a pale and skinny substitute. Server features we need don't exist and can't be added and even basic OS upgrade fails. BUT, as I said, it gets us through the night.



So there's this guy typing furiously on the keyboard.
His wife is calling him to bed ...
and he replies "I can't come right now!"
She asks "Why not?"
& He says "Because someone on the Internet is wrong!"

 

[chris_c_]

Let's ask @wardmundy for help here. Ward, could you please comment on why you removed http://www.pbxinaflash.org/common/repos365.tgz ?

 

[dbdataplus]

Let's ask @wardmundy for help here. Ward, could you please comment on why you removed http://www.pbxinaflash.org/common/repos365.tgz ?

I'm guessing lack of interest, need of space, etc. There also is an issue with pkg.rpmforge.org which held other repos and that's a separate site, so it's by no means just pbxinaflash.

The odd thing it was around back in November when we generated the last server == and right here, right on this page, on this day, is a link to "Download PBXinaFlash3" which links to the very script that points to repos that don't exist.

https://pbxinaflash.com/piaf3-install.tar.gz

 

[wardmundy]

There were innumerable problems with PIAF3 and piaf3-install.sh. First, all of the code was over 3 years out of date. Second, the Asterisk and FreePBX versions are no longer supported or maintained. Third, many of the repos other than ours had either disappeared or needed major upgrades. Fourth, and most importantly, PIAF3+Asterisk+FreePBX was not a secure or a safe platform on which to run a VoIP server. Nobody was willing to tackle all of the problems, including me. We have provided a current version of Incredible PBX 3 that uses current Asterisk technology, GPL modules from FreePBX, and current repositories. It is also secure. That's the best we can do, I'm afraid.

 

[dbdataplus]

I understand, Ward. It's 10x to 100x tougher when you can't control all the parts that make up your product.

We're out of the woods for now because as I stated, while the PIAF3 ISO (FreePBX-5.211.65-21-x86_64-Full-1416750375.iso) houses the PIAF in a crippled/borderline defective OS ... It DOES get the job done. We could deploy from the ISO, restore the user's backup and get them running. This will work until the Hyper-V piaf3.vx file arrives and we generate a Server 2012 system and install the PIAF on that and then we have a truly portable and enduring environment while we look into better options for the future.

So that, as they say, is all she wrote.


That said, I enjoy a good Dead Horse Beatin' as well as the next guy.

I'm not averse to progress. I was once one of you. 16 bit core-memory assembly language programmer and 74LS logic designer. All my adult life was dedicated to progress, new, improved AND revolutionary ... yet we still to this day dig holes with shovels. I cannot wrap my mind around the notion that someone who deployed piaf3-install.sh is in any way shape or form 'at fault' for expecting it to be there when he needs it. Or that it was foolish for him to trust in that way.. I will tell you that the one suggestion that PIAF is not a serious product and is intended for home builders and hobbyists and that no one would use it as an appliance -- was a new one to me.

In any case, this horse is thoroughly dead.

PS: I hear that Atlanta won the Popular vote?

 

[wardmundy]

As you say, it's difficult to maintain a product when you don't control all of the pieces. With PIAF3 that burden simply became insurmountable. Plenty of other options are still available both on the open source and commercial sides. The world is not ending.

 

[dbdataplus]

The world is not ending.

Now THAT --- I could get behind. Speaking of 'long of tooth' and clearly past it's intended service life!

 

[chris_c_]

What to do with old versions of code, this is a hot debate.

In my opinion, when you need the disk space, best thing to do is to upload it on to github then delete it from your system, because you never know when someone comes along like @dbdataplus and really wants the old version for now until work can be done at some later time to carefully plan any upgrades or migrations.

 

[wardmundy]

You obviously haven't looked at "the code." Problem is that it's not one piece of code. It's literally hundreds of pieces stored in more than a dozen repositories. No way to replicate that on GitHub in a manner that it would ever be useful. As I've said before, if you want the pure open source solution with self-contained code, switch to Incredible PBX 13.

 

[krzykat]

if you want the pure open source solution with self-contained code, switch to Incredible PBX 13.

That's exactly what I've done, and I like it. Plus there's the repository for it so you don't have to worry about what if's. Change it up and tweak it yourself if that's to your liking. I think its the most usable open FPBX implementation there is right now and think its suitable to run about any size business with. I had hoped that @phonebo.cx would have taken that and run with it with newer updates and tweaks, but so far .... nothing from them.

 

[chris_c_]

Yes upgrading is wonderful however for those who are on piaf3 and phones are down, and many phone systems are out there running and dependent on the old piaf3, and all they need to recover from their disaster outage quickly is that script which @dbdataplus was looking for. Again, for disaster recovery of an existing system with that special database and everything, not for setting up a new phone system. Archive all code, throw away nothing.

 

[wardmundy]

Yes upgrading is wonderful however for those who are on piaf3 and phones are down, and many phone systems are out there running and dependent on the old piaf3, and all they need to recover from their disaster outage quickly is that script which @dbdataplus was looking for. Again, for disaster recovery of an existing system with that special database and everything, not for setting up a new phone system. Archive all code, throw away nothing.

Haven't thrown away anything. Have at it:

http://nerdvittles.dreamhosters.com/pbxinaflash/common/
http://nerdvittles.dreamhosters.com/pbxinaflash/piafrepo/
http://nerdvittles.dreamhosters.com/pbxinaflash/scripts/
http://nerdvittles.dreamhosters.com/pbxinaflash/ksdir/
http://nerdvittles.dreamhosters.com/pbxinaflash/projects/