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FOOD FOR THOUGHT A step too far?

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by stanjohn, Aug 14, 2016.

  1. stanjohn

    stanjohn
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    It's a long story but I'm cutting cost and droping my cable internet, switching too sprint LTE, moving my main numbers to sprint connect home service with ringplus. Trying to use the stuff I allready have. Step one was to setup a new asterisk box for my hobby use but I seem to be failing.
    1. tried Vultr and ViXO a week in and it was not stabe, I did not know how too do anything.
    2. tried Vultr and ViXO and IncrediblePBX for CentOS7, result same as above.
    3. tried to USB install IncrediblePBX 13 on dicated box, too much for me again
    4. Installed FreePBX distro on same machine as #3 working better
    While working on this I ran across a post:
    http://pbxinaflash.com/community/threads/incrediblepbx-for-x386-system.19846/#post-123815

    This has me thinking are there other people like me that think things are moving too fast ?
    I miss the old system status in the GUI with trunks and lines total number up.
    The one page extention setup.
     
  2. wardmundy

    wardmundy
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    Not sure how to help you with the comments you've posted. "Didn't know how to do anything" and "Too much for me again" aren't much of a hint as to what's gone wrong. Are you following a tutorial for the install? The Incredible PBX for XiVO tutorial on the Vultr platform is about as easy as a PBX gets.
     
  3. Bart

    Bart
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    I followed the instructions on Nerdvittles without issues and install it on Vultr. Yes, you need to forget everything you know about FreePBX.
    Although I'm not 100% sure XiVO is ready for prime time yet for my service bureau operation, It seems to be OK for the Office Phone System
     
  4. stanjohn

    stanjohn
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    I wasn't asking for help and not sure why I could not get anything to work over a period of several weeks. But I was wondering if it was just me or if others were trying to install different things and were finding it hard when it was easy 6 months ago.
     
  5. Bart

    Bart
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    "not sure why I could not get anything to work over a period of several weeks" - huh?

    It works! Just follow the install step-by-step as above. Here: http://nerdvittles.com/?p=19023
     
  6. stanjohn

    stanjohn
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    A big part of my problem and at this point I was thinking about digging up a hybird key/pbx system from the basement but that thing eats about 800 watts.
     
  7. stanjohn

    stanjohn
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    Yes but your link dosen't work, after edit found ViXO that is just too hard to bend to my needs.
     
  8. briankelly63

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    There is a learning curve to XiVO. It's almost as if you need the kind of programming books they used to publish like 'C Language for Basic programmers'. It tough to get out of thinking a particular way. I wouldn't call Asterisk intuitive so it's tough for the GUI to magically transform that.

    At some point maybe I'll be able to write a 20,000 foot view of certain aspects. For example.... in XiVO (coming from the current GUI's) you can forget about the Device stuff if you don't need it. SIP settings are handled in two different places depending on whether you are setting a deep setting, a default setting or just a setting specific to a given trunk. It can be very difficult to find or re-find a particular setting. XiVO might benefit from an iPhone like Spotlight search for a given function as XiVO has hundreds more settings than an Iphone. Although there are context sensitive drop downs they often say nothing more than which asterisk setting they represent. In the routing configuration boxes of our existing GUI there are context sensitive explanations that are very helpful reminders.

    In an effort to be organized I think XiVO created too many sub menus. Under SIP Protocol for example there are 10 tabs! Why programmers don't use the entire real estate of the screen to combine tabs is a mystery. I think it would be helpful to have a reset to defaults button on each menu or a control key function that would return a given drop down to it's default. I think color could be used to effectively highlight common vs. seldom changed menu items.

    I would experiment on a dedicated PC until you got more comfortable and got things worked out. You might also want to just run XiVO by itself until you get things working.

    I think XiVO has a great deal of potential. It's amazing that so much has been added in such a short time and it's developers seem very willing to make changes and additions. What a welcome change!
     
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  9. Sylvain Boily

    Sylvain Boily
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    Hello, that really interesting to get your feedback about XiVO, if you have idea to improve XiVO, please open a ticket on projects.xivo.io and you're welcome to discuss with me or my team on IRC (@freenode #xivo, my nickname is quintana) or on our forum. We are very open to enhanced XiVO. I'll be at astricon too.

    Sylvain
     
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  10. stanjohn

    stanjohn
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    I don't have a problem with XiVO, I realy did not get much of a chance to see it, could not get the thing to run more than a few days on Vultr, working fine one day down the next. I don't understand the user thing think that is an astrisk 13 thing. My last stable install was
    Asterisk (Ver. 11.14.0) and CentOS release 6.4 (Final) with FreePBX 2.11.0.43 .

    I will try XiVO again it is impressive but my post was not seeking a fix but more a comment on rate of change and it's effect on members here trying to keep up.
     
  11. wardmundy

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    Thanks, @stanjohn. Your point is well-taken. Keep in mind that the inspiration for these open source projects has always had a healthy dose of the pioneering spirit. That necessarily encompasses a certain amount of instability on the front end. While XiVO has been under development for almost a decade, transforming it into a platform that mere mortals can deal with has been a huge undertaking, and we're only a few months into the project. If the pace is too fast or too complex, then drop back to a platform you're more comfortable with for a few months and then try it again. We think the main XiVO tutorial is quite stable now, but there are lots of other options that may better meet your own requirements.
     
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  12. briankelly63

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    There are a lot of platforms that come and go and many are easy to walk away from, XiVO is different. It's different enough to be compelling and has a very solid feel to it. It's real-time nature is also a big plus. Beyond all that the fact that it's updated so often and the development team is so accessible makes it very different. It's Debian underpinnings feel more solid too. It's still hard to beleive this was out here for so long and no one noticed it.
     
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  13. billsimon

    billsimon
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    Just my 2 cents.

    Ward's projects are the AOL'ification of open source VoIP. Great to get people in the door. Then you think you are "using the Internet" and have no idea what you are doing because all you know is AOL chat rooms.

    Incredible PBX gives you everything to make your work easy. Scripted install, scripted updates and patches, scripted iptables firewall. It's like the floppy disk being delivered to your mailbox! (Note: this is a great thing and Ward deserves plenty of appreciation for this work.)

    Of these GUI -- FreePBX, Elastix, Asterisk GUI, Xivo, FusionPBX (FreeSWITCH) -- the FreePBX GUI is by far the easiest to learn and use, in my opinion.

    It is a mistake to learn the GUI and then think you know something about Asterisk. But if you do learn about Asterisk, then the learning curve to understand Xivo is not so steep if you already have expertise in FreePBX and know what Asterisk is doing behind the scenes.

    Sorry, not trying to be negative, but the complaining about "it's hard" is absolutely right. It is hard, so you have to take time to learn.
     
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  14. wardmundy

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    @billsimon: Love the analogy. Only wish we had gotten the billion dollars that the AOL founders received.

    The inspiration for Incredible PBX was to save people the unbelievably steep learning curve we endured when first starting to use Asterisk. And, frankly, the developers liked it that way because many of them made a living configuring Asterisk for people that didn't know what they were doing.

    What you get with Incredible PBX? Number 1: you get a secure server out of the starting gate unlike any of the others. Number 2: you get all the tools and samples to learn how to do anything and almost everything with Asterisk. Number 3: you get a working system that can make and receive free calls. Number 4: you get a pure open source GPL platform with No Gotchas and no hidden agenda.

    What you don't get with Incredible PBX or any other Asterisk-based platform? A college degree in telecommunications or network administration without actually doing the work.

    Yes, it's hard. But, with Incredible PBX, it's also fun AND safe.
     
  15. jerrm

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    I agree. XIVO feels like and is a technically more solid platform.

    But for our now, FreePBX is currently the better base platform for the small-medium offices we are in, FreePBX hits most of the bullet points we need. Even if sometimes far from perfect, the features are usually "good enough."

    My feel is XIVO is a great platform to build upon, and has some great features (XIVO Client, etc), and ultimately capable of anything we need with add-ons, some code and some time. While none of it is overly complicated, it is too much to bother with when FreePBX fits the bill.

    For broader adoption, I think XIVO needs to address some of the usability issues. The UI needs to be flattened and simplified (easy to say, hard to actually implement), some of the "extra" features (CDR, call recording, blacklists, etc) need to be implemented, etc. Some of those limitations are likely deliberate - I can actually admire a dev team that can keep focus and avoid feature creep in the core project. XIVO proper may never get some of it.

    I wonder what Avencall's commercial offering looks like, I'd have to think some of the holes and features are addressed. Are they incorporating other available projects, proprietary add-ons and code, a combination, etc?
     
  16. wardmundy

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    @jerrm: From what I can decipher, Avencall deploys the exact same code that we all are using. No gimmicks or proprietary add-ons. They simply bill for their time.
     
  17. Sylvain Boily

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    There is only one version of XiVO. Avencall have an addon named XiVO cc developped by them, but using XiVO interfaces. It's a free software too. http://xivocc.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
    They integrate XiVO to french customers with the same base code from everybody have.

    The XiVO dev team is based in Quebec city, we are 5 and i founded this project in 2005 with my french company in Paris started in 2004. I moved to Quebec in 2010 after i merged this company in 2010 with Avencall. My company in Quebec is Proformatique INC.

    There is many people around the world who are using XiVO, and yes the philosophy is different from freepbx. I don't know specially freepbx so it's difficult for me to compare them with XiVO, but for me Freepbx is a web interface to configure Asterisk and XiVO is a telecom platform based on Asterisk.

    If you have question, i'll be happy to answer :)

    Please note english is not my primary language ...
     
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  18. jerrm

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    The site has plenty of mentions for "integration" with various products. Like many open source solutions, the $$$$ are in the consulting. XiVO looks great for that model, a solid product with great interfaces.

    XiVO-cc certainly looks good, but sort of overkill for many - like using a sledgehammer to kill a fly.

    Great potential for a XiVO-ez project: add in some basic functionality, maybe some "Wizard" like interfaces for adding extensions/users/trunks/..., integration of XiVO-cc, etc.
     
  19. Sylvain Boily

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    XiVO is develop to have many projects around the platform. Have you check our API? api.xivo.io? We working hard to add one everyday. So it's possible to create a new GUI on the top of XiVO with our API. Not all the features, but we working to do this.
     
  20. wardmundy

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    And wait until you see what's coming in a day or two for Google Voice :biggrinjester:
     
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