FOOD FOR THOUGHT Confused About Distros?

SMTC

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Ward,
I have and old deprecated PIAF system and want to get away from running it on the old DELL (with spinning about to die hard drives).

Two choices I figure, 1) Cloud or 2) Solid state, low power, like the Pi 2 + B

I have a Cloud at Cost server (VMWARE 2 CPU, 1 GIG RAM, 20 GIG SSD) and really really struggled to get a PIAF to load up clean on their CENTOS 6.5 64 it OS load. Tried different "colors" - Green, Black, Purple, etc. All I got at the end was tampered modules, modules without signatures, modules that would not update because this and that were missing. After wiping the server off many times I was finally able to get the Incredible PBX 13 to install and it looks pretty clean!

You say Incredible PBX is pure GPL and we can do what we want but two things I have notice so far is a) only the first 10 updates are free (then a nominal $20/yr payable to you) and b) HELP-PBX which I am used to does not exist even though its mentioned in various help docs.

My home IP changes every time I reboot so accessing the PBX in the cloud is a bit of a problem with the IPTABLES lockdown.

So, what version should I be trying to load here - for this cloud??? I want a long term supported solutions as getting deprecated is a PITA. I really am also having trouble following the NERD VITTLES posting path. Sorry.

I think I might rather bring the box back inhouse, so thinking the Pi is the route to go. Can I put Raspbian and Incredible 13 on this for LTS? Does this then also request the $20/yr?

Application for me is lite home/small biz/hobbyist. <10 ext <5 trunks, remote access via Zoiper and remote ATA's off site (with IP's that change)

Thanks for pointing me in the straight path...

John
 

SMTC

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Ward,
Thanks for replying. Just wish it was a few hours earlier as I just ordered a RasPi2 on Amazon.CA. The kit with all the fixin's was about $100 CAD. The Intel NUC would end up costing quite a bit more by the time I include the SSD and RAM. At that point, I 'm probably better off using a spare older Dell Vostro 3500 laptop I have kicking around. With its internal battery, there is a built-in UPS and it has a keyboard and screen already in place. Surprised I have not read about using older laptops repurposed for PIAF!?!?

I have come to rely on my PIAF installation and its been rock solid for years but its totally unsupported now and the h/w is getting long in the tooth so I'm getting nervous. Time to upgrade.

And by the way, fundamentally I have no aversion to contributing a bit to get some (extra) support. The suggested donation is affordable for the hobbyist type installation.
 

wardmundy

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At that point, I 'm probably better off using a spare older Dell Vostro 3500 laptop I have kicking around. With its internal battery, there is a built-in UPS and it has a keyboard and screen already in place. Surprised I have not read about using older laptops repurposed for PIAF!?!?

Heh... one of our first articles: http://nerdvittles.com/?p=98
 

Ramblin

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I have been running a PIAF 2 system (and before that a PIAF 1 version) for 5 years now and love it.

The attention paid to reliability, security and stability are testament to the experience of the folks (Ward and Tom) who have lived the other end of the spectrum and regretted it.

SO here I am, ready to upgrade my system and I am seeing two options:
- PIAF, which has the most recent version of 3.6.5 using Asterisk 11 - Last version uploaded in 2014
- IncrediblePBX, which has the most recent version of GUI 12 using Asterisk 13 - Last version uploaded in 2016

Since Asterisk 13 is the latest LTS version of Asterisk and since I will likely leave this system running for a long time (again), I'd like to use the latest stable Asterisk (13) in a production-ready system.

My questions are these:
- Is there a production-ready version of PIAF using Asterisk13?
(I see PIAF-Black but the documentation says to use PIAF-Green in Production)
- Is Incredible PBX where the future work will be done? (ie is PIAF without IncrediblePBX no longer being updated?)
- If I want stability, will I get it with IncrdiblePBX
- Can I install IncrediblePBX and NOT enable the "over 50" additional Asterisk applications?
(I want a solid system and MAY add bell/whistles but want a basic system to start)

Edit: I should have added that I want to use CentOS as the base OS so the most recent "Lean and Mean" installer that installs SL first is not the answer for me.
 
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wardmundy

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@Ramblin: PIAF 3 is getting a little long in the tooth at this juncture especially if you're interested in Asterisk 13. Incredible PBX now has an ISO that supports both the Full Enchilada with the 30+ apps and a Lean & Mean alternative which is much like PIAF except it has a preconfigured firewall. Incredible PBX is pure open source code so you can look at it and tweak it as desired. You can even roll your own ISO if you'd like.

Nerd Vittles tutorials galore:

 

Ramblin

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Thank you Ward, that helps.

I noticed on the latest Incredible PBX listing on SourceForge at
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pbxinaflash/files/IncrediblePBX13-12 with Incredible PBX GUI/
there is an installer file at
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pbx.../incrediblepbx13-12L.2-centos.tar.gz/download
that installs the current Incredible PBX on a base CentOS 6.5/6.7 or CentOS 7.0 platform
and a ReadMe file at
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pbx...2 with Incredible PBX GUI/readme.txt/download
with a link to instruction for for installing on CentOS:
http://nerdvittles.com/?p=14208

The Incredible PBX ISO installs Scientific Linux, something with which I have never previously worked.
If there is no compelling reason to use Scientific Linux, I'd prefer to go with CentOS (familiarity).

The page at
http://scientificlinuxforum.org/index.php?showtopic=924
explained some differences between SL and CentOS
but I did not follow all the nuances, so would appreciate your thoughts.


Is there a compelling reason to go with Scientific Linux or am I fine with CentOS using the instructions and installer file from above?
 

wardmundy

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The only difference in Scientific Linux and CentOS is the branding. All of the underlying code is the same. We used SL in the ISO to avoid "issues" with Red Hat.
 

Ramblin

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Sorry Ward, I forgot to ask one thing

My hardware on which the current system is running is still in good shape but is 32 bit.

The instructions at
http://nerdvittles.com/?p=14208
explicitly state that the 64-bit CentOS 6.7 minimal install is to be used.

Will the installer also work on a 32 bit platform or if not, is there a current version of the Incredible PBX installer for CentOS that will work on a 32 bit platform?
 

hecatae

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If anyone is curious and still wants to install PIAF3.0.6.7 I always use Green or Yellow with FreePBX 2.9 to install, and then move up to 2.11 if required.

Yellow installs both meetme and confbridge satisfying FreePBX 2.9 conference needs, and covers not needing to re-compile it you move up to 2.11
 

MacNix

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Is this decision tree still accurate?

Piaf 13 being labeled 'less than stable' when the article was written - has that been resolved, or is it still problematic?
 

MacNix

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On the decision tree process... Another thought/idea...

In addition to, the decision tree (for OS and Piaf version/Ast* version info), perhaps a repository of installation instructions (on this forum), each one following the decision tree:

This would all be its own installation forum section, broken down to a pinned page at the front of each one, with the most recent version instructions)
COS6.5/6.7 - with Piafabc (with a download link for a .pdf, OR a simple text file in it with 1. 2. 3. instructions....)
COS6.5/6.7 - with Piafxyz "....."
COS6.5/6.7 - with Piafzzz "....."

COS7 - with Piafabc "....."
COS7 - with Piafxyz "....."
COS7 - with Piafzzz "....."

SLabc - with Piafxyz "....."
SLxyz - with Piafxyz "....."
SLzzz - with Piafxyz "....."

THEN, each of these would have its own .pdf with ONLY INSTRUCTIONS AND **NO** EXTRANEOUS ADDITIONAL VERBAGE.

The value of this would be that the user could simply walk thru a decision tree process (where he first understood the values of each one), THEN he would GO TO *THAT* specific combination instruction sheet, and THAT specific instruction sheet could be kept current. If for example, a CentOS update happened, some update caused a borking, etc, those who know would simply add that data to the instruction page, and all comers would be recommended to go there and follow the most current instructions...

*IF* the current decision tree page is accurate and up-to-date, it would be a simple process to point each decision result (from the decision tree) to a corresponding install instruction set on the forum...

This would then become an active help-repository, where active users would maintain current data (ie., changing repositories, updates, etc), and there wouldn't be a constant shifting sand of web data; you could point ALL users directly to that installation.

I know that many times questions are referred to the NerdVittles site. While it is full of A LOT of data, it is HORRIBLY TERRIBLY DIFFICULT to figure out what is current and what's from 2011... It's probably second in frustration (to me personally) of all webistes on the planet only to textfiles.com.. Nerdvittles doesn't have any semblance of date-stamp on articles (unless one wants to cat every page for a date, then figure out which is most recent, because *IF* there is a date-stamp, then it's usually somewhere around 60-75% of the way down the page, hidden in the middle of a text area)... Additionally, most installation/marketing rollout pages contains reams of text extolling the wonders of numerous add-ons (which are useless to most of us, when all we want to know is the current best config that we're happy to roll with). And finally of course, one feels rather stupid billing a (very poor) client for 2hrs of avoidable web searching for something as simple as "which is the most current version that's compatible with my XYZ OS and XYZ Piaf setup"...

In fact, I'd suggest that BOTH could really be kept separate easily - keep all instructions in a forum folder here, and keep all the 'sales pitch' stuff elsewhere.. I'd bet that the installation & setup questions, and the user hassle factor would drop by 50% or more if this separation were to be implemented.

Sorry if this comes across as a rant.. I love Piaf - we install it on multiple continents, and it allows numerous people in 3rd world countries to have telephony at free/near free, which is wonderful. The labor of love is wonderful. What's not wonderful is the easily avoidable hassle factor caused by documentation spread across multiple websites, surrounded by a blizzard of useless trivia, lacking critical data points (ie., date stamps and version history data), which can't be quickly parsed for decision-making.

Sometime back (18 months ago ish) I created a simple txt page with (then current) data on C6.5/Piaf11 installation.. after tiring of the endless hours of digging thru the data blizzard, I created my own rolled.iso, and we have been running it ever since (untill this week I realized that someone had trashed the .iso backup after an employee advised me that the only working install had died... :cuss::incazzato: Of course, said instructions are now 18 months (and several CentOS versions) behind, the repositories have changed, and that is no longer valid.... I'd love to stop re-creating the wheel every few months/years..
 

wardmundy

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@MacNix: Thanks for your thoughtful comments. Let me try to address some of the concerns. First, there are two distinct products: PBX in a Flash and Incredible PBX. Initially, Incredible PBX was an add-on for PIAF and other platforms (AsteriskNOW, Elastix, etc) to provide apps and security, but there now are numerous stand-alone versions of Incredible PBX that are independent from PIAF. The rest of my comments are, for the most part, related to the stand-alone versions of Incredible PBX.

While PIAF and Incredible PBX have some similarities, Incredible PBX (the stand-alone versions) were built from scratch as pure open source code with an emphasis on security out of the box. There are versions with a collection of Asterisk applications (about 3 dozen) and without, and there are installers for many different OS platforms. All of the Incredible PBX 13 releases are very current, and we try to keep them that way. That is a full plate for me personally. We've got some new help on the PBX in a Flash front, but a new release is still a work in progress, and I don't have much more to share at this point.

In all honesty, PIAF hasn't changed much from what you were using 18 months ago. It's still a great product if you don't mind setting up your own security for your servers. Some prefer that. Or you can run the Incredible PBX installer for PIAF (on top of PIAF) to add security and applications. However, during that 18 months, RedHat/CentOS, Asterisk and FreePBX have changed dramatically. This has led to some rough edges trying to get PIAF to install properly if you want to use a newer OS, or a newer version of Asterisk, or a newer version of FreePBX. And when you add CentOS 7 to that mix, you can probably expect breakage. Same goes for migrating to newer hardware that wasn't around 18 months ago. I can't fix any of that at this juncture.

What I can tell you is that, if you want to roll up your sleeves and you know what you're doing, PIAF is still a wonderful platform. As for Nerd Vittles, it's primarily focused on the here and now, not builds from 18 months ago. Our Decision Tree is accurate especially when you choose something current and stable. The further back you go in time with Nerd Vittles tutorials, the less meaningful the choices and reliability become. We do not typically update old articles. That's not the best use of my time.

If you want to use Asterisk 13 or CentOS 7 or FreePBX 12/13, then 18-month-old code is probably not going to be a good fit simply because those platforms didn't exist or were brand new when the 18-month-old PIAF code was written. Asterisk platform longevity seems to be measured in months, not years. That's unfortunate but it's part of the open source DNA, I'm afraid.

As for CentOS and Scientific Linux, they're basically the same thing. The only difference is the branding. We've chosen to use Scientific Linux for Incredible PBX ISOs because the build was partially funded by the federal government thereby avoiding some of the trademark hassles in the products of "others." For those building an OS platform first and then running an installer, you will see zero difference by choosing CentOS or Scientific Linux as your base platform. Oracle Linux is slightly more proprietary with more licensing minefields so we personally avoid it.

For a concise review of current generation products, see this Nerd Vittles post which attempts to sum up where we are in one paragraph.
 
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Guillermo Prado

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Thanks for your comments, in brief:

PIAF: R.I.P.???

incredible PBX:Long live the king!!!!

is obviously not recommended install a system with 18 months without any update.
 

SMTC

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Ward says "All of the Incredible PBX 13 releases are very current, and we try to keep them that way". Using the instructions for a Cloud At Cost installation at link http://nerdvittles.com/?p=16791, the script installs the Incredible PBX 13-12.2, but we still need to do another script to get GV OAUTH working which brings the version up to 13-12.3 (as with the Raspberry Pi 2 version). Is there a script that does the 13-12.3 install directly, and if so, where do we find it?
 

wardmundy

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This already has been rolled out for CentOS and Ubuntu platforms. RasPi 3 build is an image. We'll put an OAuth version on the Wish List.
 

SMTC

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Tried to overlay these instructions to an existing IPBX 13-12.2 and the wget failed and the script ran with errors. At the end however I get what appears to be good status screen with GVOAUTH GREEN and the version updated to 13-12.3.

Was Asterisk already OK and the script just updated GUI field label and changed the version label, or is this likely munged and it just looks like it OK?

Cloud at Cost and their middle of the day "Emergency Updates" have messed up my active Server (no console access from panel) and I have had to stop/reboot a few times now to get it back running (remote SSH comes back)

I think we need to stop suggesting that Cloud at Cost is anything usable. There is next to zero support, and its not even remotely stable since they are always "friggin in the riggin".
 

wardmundy

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No idea honestly. The post before yours clearly stated that there was a RasPi3 OAuth upgrade image in the works, but using the update script probably didn't get all the pieces in place. There is an OAuth version for the RasPi 3 on SourceForge if you want to start over.
 

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