TIPS What's a good router for PIAF?

Brian Simmons

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If you want something off the shelf (ie not running your own computer for router/firewall solution), then I would highly suggest the Asus RT-N66 "Dark Knight" router - http://www.amazon.com/RT-N66U-Dual-Band-Wireless-N900-Gigabit-Router/dp/B006QB1RPY (if you don't need AC wireless) and run Merlin, DD-WRT or Tomato on it. I would also recommend getting the Motorola SB-6141 cable modem - http://www.amazon.com/Motorola-SURFboard-SB6141-DOCSIS-High-Speed/dp/B007IMPMW4/ref=pd_sim_pc_7 if you are have a cable provider.

Between those two devices - especially with the router running a better firmware than OEM - you should be all set.
 

magna.vis

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It's rather easy to do and setup with Untangle..
I can second this, I love Untangle. I just wish more of the modules were free.

Asus RT-N66 "Dark Knight" router.

And I can also second this. If I weren't so cheap I would spring for an RT-N66U too. I personally am against running a PC as a router/firewall at home, the odds of it failing and power consumption are higher. I have no need for anything my TomatoUSB firmware can't do, and I suspect most home users won't.
 

TwigsUSAN

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I've been running pfSense for 2 or 3 yrs now. I stop using consumer firewalls and started using this. Especially since I burned up the last two consumer models.
 

billsimon

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Asus RT + Tomato is a champ. I've been thinking of moving my home Asterisk install directly onto the router and shutting down an old piece of PC hardware.
 

rjaiswal

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I just started playing around with this:

http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax#EdgeMAXhardware

For $99 you can get a really well built, wall mountable router with 3 interfaces, running a fork of Vyatta.

It even supports being an openvpn server! I installed one at a client, and it's been very, very stable.

I plan on replacing my pfsense box at home with one.
 

islandtech

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I also have a client that has 1 in service. Reason for its use -1- easily separates pbx lan from data lan. -2- very easy l2tp-ipsec configuration for remote access to the network
 

magna.vis

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I just started playing around with this:

http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax#EdgeMAXhardware

For $99 you can get a really well built, wall mountable router with 3 interfaces, running a fork of Vyatta.

It even supports being an openvpn server! I installed one at a client, and it's been very, very stable.

I plan on replacing my pfsense box at home with one.

Getting an EdgeMAX may be ideal for some people. I can see someone who's generally happy with their router until they want to use an internal service (like PIAF) picking one of these up, and repurposing their router as an AP. That would be a great, low cost solution to their problem. Or someone like yourself that's accustomed to having a pfSense or similar device. And it's generally going to work very well!

But, the alternative is to get a newer, higher end router (one that supports an alternate firmware of your choice) that will last a long time for that same c-note. It really does come down to cost and ease of manageability. I run a tight ship at home. But, I'm in IT, so I tend to mess around a lot. I had, in days long past, set up tons of fun and interesting services at home; FreeNAS, a WHS Box for a while, Amahi, Zentyal. When I set them up, they are cool for a while, then I realise I just don't need them. Now I run what I need and that's it. I have one router and a second AP on the other side of the house. Both run TomatoUSB, and they do everything I could want them to (and I tend to ask quite a bit of my devices).

I'm not disagreeing with you entirely; I think the EdgeMAX routers are great. I think in some situations, they could be a perfect choice. Some people aren't comfortable hacking their router, or they may have just invested in a router that has great coverage and wireless abilities, but does not forward ports well and isn't hackable, or whatever. A single $100 investment could make a lot of sense to fix the problem for those people. When Hyksos recommended EdgeMAX, I loaded up a Vyatta router at our datacenter to play with. Very powerful box, no doubt, and I trust that an EdgeMAX Lite would be untaxed when handling SOHO network traffic. I would just implore a SOHO admin to decide if they want/need to have yet another networking device to maintain, and how much they are really getting for their dollar. I would love to have one to play with, but I am fairly sure I would end up taking it offline after getting my fill. I don't believe I would notice a performance difference on my home office network. The less the better on my network, and most SOHO users would benefit from similar mindsets. If I were in the situation described above, I would sell my router and get something like a refurb E4200 v1 or RT-N66U and "hack" it (they are really easy to hack, for those who don't know). I'd probably come out on top and get everything I need on a platform that's going to receive updates for a very long time through my third party firmware upgrade.

This is pretty much the same argument I make against recommending pfSense for a SOHO network just to run one service, like PIAF. The only difference is that this is a potentially good solution for some people, and the fact that it's an actual device with updates and software/hardware maintained and warrantied by Ubiquiti makes it a much better option (for most SOHO users) than setting up a pfSense or similar box. These types of devices are closing those gaps, and it's very interesting, especially so at it's price point.
 
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I think the key advantage to using something beyond your basic consumer router is the education you'll get by working with it. The "router" shouldn't be a black box that you don't understand after all everything you do passes through it.

At least a third of the issues discussed in this forum relate to router or network issues and unless you have both an understanding and control of that portion of things you will always be chasing ghosts in your VOIP environment. I run email and VOIP servers. Without PfSense and Wireshark I'd be lost. I run a package on PfSense that blocks IP's by country (easily) which saves the servers a lot of time in either rejecting that traffic or trying to process bogus attempts. Even if you only have one server the ability to quickly and easily look at network traffic and make changes to it becomes really important.
 

rjaiswal

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I am a huge fan of pfsense. Been using it since 1.2. Getting a good stable box to run it costs a couple of hundred dollars, at least. The edgemax routers would be a great, inexpensive, off the shelf unit, for offices or homes that need something a bit more robust. I like that I can create dhcp options for provisioning phones and access points. And, it also allows the creation of custom DNS entries.

Stuff this cheap was not available even a couple of years ago.

Being in IT since the 80's, I'm always amazed at how much value you can get for your dollar these days... :)
 
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I've been tempted to pick up an Edgemax to play with to see what all they can do since I've been pretty pleased with UniFi and AirVision.
Personally my routers are Funtoo or Debian boxes using Shorewall/PSAD/etc.
 

magna.vis

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This thread has made me want to pick up an EdgeMax device as well. I have a few PoE phones, so I have a hard time not springing for the PoE model, but it's an extra $100. We'll see, I should have a little cash coming in soon. Treat myself to a new toy, or pay off the credit card... hmmm....
 
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My concern with the PoE model is that (like with the ToughSwitches I was just looking into a while ago - I'm looking into adding a PoE switch to my home rack) they may be purely Passive PoE, not 802.3af PoE, so you'd have to be pretty careful about configuring it and plugging stuff into the ports.
 

rjaiswal

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I just installed it last night. I can't believe the throughput I'm getting from it. And configuring it using the new 1.3 firmware was pretty painless. I'm still setting up openvpn. I should have everything up and running in a couple of days. I can't believe how painless it was...
 

rjaiswal

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My concern with the PoE model is that (like with the ToughSwitches I was just looking into a while ago - I'm looking into adding a PoE switch to my home rack) they may be purely Passive PoE, not 802.3af PoE, so you'd have to be pretty careful about configuring it and plugging stuff into the ports.


Very True. I only use the tough switches with their access points. And i think the edgemax poe has the same type passive poe setup...
 

magna.vis

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I didn't know 1.3 had been released. That's good to hear. I also don't mind the PoE being passive. I'd be using it at home, I'm always careful about hooking the wires up using the standard sequence (I used to do that for a living), and I test before any wire goes live.

rjaiswal - what did you replace (one of your pfSense boxes?) and where (home or client's)? The throughput difference is really noticeable in what way, browsing, or large file transfers? Both? I've not spoken to anyone who put one in, and I'm interested in your experience.
 

rjaiswal

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I didn't know 1.3 had been released. That's good to hear. I also don't mind the PoE being passive. I'd be using it at home, I'm always careful about hooking the wires up using the standard sequence (I used to do that for a living), and I test before any wire goes live.

rjaiswal - what did you replace (one of your pfSense boxes?) and where (home or client's)? The throughput difference is really noticeable in what way, browsing, or large file transfers? Both? I've not spoken to anyone who put one in, and I'm interested in your experience.



I installed one at a client a couple of months ago. That system was all ubiquti. Unfi, ToughSwitch, and Edgemax. I used an old dell tower to run the unfi controller. This was in a home, and the stability of the entire system was simply amazing. With 20 iOS devices, 5 laptops in 2 houses, running on one crappy cable connection, internet dropouts basically have stopped.

As for the one that's running 1.3, that's at home. I was running pfsense on a small minix mini computer with dual broadcom nics. It was an atom D560 I think... I wanted to see how the openvpn server was on the edgemax, so I replaced my pfsense box with it. Nothing was wrong with it... I just wanted to see what this thing could do. After I setup the NAT and port forwards for my servers, I found that I gained 10% more download bandwidth, and 10% more upload bandwidth, than what I was getting with my pfsense box. Also, webpages just seemed to load faster, on both wired and wireless connections. On Speedtest.net, I found that on the download test, the pfsense box would sutter alittle. The edgemax, however, doesn't stutter at all.

I have an Extreme Summit X450-48P as my core switch (I got a REALLY good deal on it... It's the only reason I have it...), and it's doing all the routing on my lan. The default gateway on the extreme points to the edgemax. This is how it was configured with pfsense as well.
 

magna.vis

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Thanks for the feedback. What kind of pipe do you have? The reason I ask is because 10% is quite a bit different on a 5 Mbps line than on a 50 Mbps line.
 

rjaiswal

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Thanks for the feedback. What kind of pipe do you have? The reason I ask is because 10% is quite a bit different on a 5 Mbps line than on a 50 Mbps line.

I have a 50/25Mb business connection from FiOS.
 

magna.vis

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I loved FiOS. Lucky you.

Thanks again, I think I'll pull the trigger. I've been working to dial in QoS my TomatoUSB Router (running Toastman build on E4200) and I think I got it where I like it, but this may be easier and better in the long run. I use VoIP while the family does a lot of heavy surfing and traffic hogging apps. It's taken me a long time to get it just right, and I'm on a 5 by 30 line.
 

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