FOOD FOR THOUGHT Fax for Asterisk detection

gregc

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I have been wanting a small free simple fax solution for incoming faxes on a voice DID. The way FFA is supposed to work with the FreePBX module would be perfect, except that fax detection is worthless... accept for one little way that I found.

I've posted at the FreePBX forum about it.

Figure I'd post here also for those looking to do the same.

What I've done is setup a dummy IVR that the call goes to first. Odd thing, if there is no join announcement, it doesn't work. So I've recorded a ringing tone and placed that as the join announcement. After that it rings the extension. I've had 100% success rate on detection.

To recap, the inbound route has detect faxes enabled. Wait time is the minimum selected (2). The fax recipient is a regular sip (voice) extension that has faxes enabled. The destination is the dummy IVR. The IVR had a ringing tone (one full ring and the dead time following - total time - just under 6 seconds). The timeout on the IVR is zero and t destination is set on the IVR to failover to the voice extension (happens to be the same extension as the fax recipient above).

Behavior is when a voice call comes in, the calling party has a slight 2 second delay before they start hearing a ring. After the first ring they hear, the extension start ringing.

When a fax comes in, it is detected in that first ring and handled appropriately.

To get the ring tone, I just set a misc application to go to terminate - ring forever then recorded the call (I put my phone on mute). I then edited the file in audacity for the length I wanted.

Hope this helps someone else.

-Greg
 

koreyb

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Hi Greg,

It would seem I also have this issue... on the current PIAF 2.0.6.5.0.

I ruled out many things, but it seems to be isolated to PBX IN A FLASH. I tried FREEPBX DISTRO and it works as it should... I would like to hear from some of the PBX IN A FLASH developers to see if this is something that can be corrected.. Your work around may help us for now...
 

wardmundy

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Keep in mind that fax machines send a tone at ten second intervals, so any setting under 6 seconds risks the fax machine not being detected. Your workaround probably works because of the length of time it takes the extension to actually connect. Aside from that, no idea why. The "old way" of detecting fax machines (NVfaxdetect) was abandoned with the release of Asterisk 1.8. At least for us, it's never worked quite right since. Also seems to work much better with some providers than with others.​
 

koreyb

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Hey Ward,

I had a working system older using SIP detection, and detect set at 2 seconds and worked just fine... EVERY TIME. This was based on Asterisk 1.8 and Freepbx 2.11

After upgrading to 2.0.6.5.0 it would appear this no longer is the case. Even with the detection time set at 10 seconds.

From what I can see detection is not happening until after the call falls over to the IVR (past detection time listed in freepbx) and seems to not carry the extension number set into this process.

I have found if I have incoming calls go to an announcement first, it will work correctly, but clearly it's something in the programming from what I'm seeing in the logs, especially with a distro based on the same versions of FREEPBX and ASTERISK working perfectly.

I can't say for sure it is the programming, but there is no other logical reason I can see.

The logs from my system are listed in my original thread on this topic which will show what I'm saying.
 

wardmundy

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All fax detection is done within FreePBX. Have they added something to the FreePBX Distro that we don't have? Not unless it is undocumented. Simple solution. Get a free DID from IPcomms and use that as your fax number. Doesn't cost a dime. Or use the gregc approach documented above.
 

koreyb

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Sigh... Freepbx support is pointing fingers at PIAF, as their answer is "if it works with our distro, it's not us" and from what I'm seeing and tests I've done I have to agree with their conclusion a bit here. Someone along the way has to take ownership of this issue though.

The only difference I can see between Freepbx Distro and PIAF is a different verance on Freepbx. Both use the same version number of Asterisk (11.7) and Freepbx (2.11.0.16).. Without breaking down every module/code it would be hard for me to find where the issue really is, but this is only what I see on face value, of a possibly of where the issue may be.

I'm not expecting a repair tomorrow, but I'm hoping to at least try to work together to get to the bottom of where the disconnect may be so we can get this issue that appears to be an ongoing issue for a bit that only a few like myself have discovered.

Hopefully the finger pointing can stop so this issue can be over come, and serve all users better by being fully resolved.
 

atsak

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It's annoying it doesn't work for you, but I don't think many people use it. Given limited dev resources, I'm not sure it's worth spending a lot of time on since there's a bunch of free DID's out there and people shouldn't use faxes anyway. But I do not presume to speak for Tom/Ward etc. I'm just suggesting you may want to consider your request as important just to you.
 
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With DID's being so cheap FREE as mentioned above or as low as $.50/month I agree while annoying it doesn't work it's not really a priority to fix when there are better ways to use fax. The only other suggestion I have to try is do you have Signal Ringing checked on the inbound route? You could try toggling that and see what happens, but I really think you should consider a separate fax number.
 

koreyb

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I'm not saying that I would like it fixed this very moment, but one thing I can't stand is being thrown back and forth and finger pointing instead of taking ownership of an issue and supporting a product you produce. It did work for a bit, but clearly has broken over time. If you don't want to fix it, totally fine.. I can respect that, but this passing the buck and pointing fingers without any research into an issue someone points out about your product, big or small, makes me wonder if there is any care going into the software any more.

I guess the PIAF team that develops have changed over the years because to my knowledge, and past experience they use to really take pride in their product, and supported it where they could.

I would just like to point out, Andrew Nagy at freepbx discovered an issue which I posted about on my original post on this issue. It does appear PIAF is missing important code to make it work..
 
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I don't see any back and forth going on here, no one said it's not PBXIAF go bother the other guys. It was just pointed out that almost no one uses fax detect with DID's being so cheap. I think the issue is here there are bigger things to work on right now including changing to an entire new OS.
 

koreyb

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We will agree to disagree.. FREEPBX support says it's not them, and then Dev on here says it's not them.. To me that's the run around..

I guess the view is "you get what you pay for" so I guess I shouldn't expect any different.
 

darmock

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Koreyb

I suppose I should take offense at the comment we don't take pride in our products. We still do and spend hundreds of hours a month supporting and developing for it for free. The core dev team is still the same and will be for the forseeable future. I suspect the reason you are saying these things is because the dev won't fix YOUR problem. You are not the only one with this problem and it is on the list, albeit somewhere near the bottom of a very long list. Also remember that the PIAF devs have real jobs that don't have anything to do with PIAF. The other guys have a huge amount of PAID staff who work on fpbx and who also donate their time, and they have more resources...

Beyond that have a nice day we will get around to fixing it when we can. There is no ETA as we have a couple of other larger higher priority problems that need our immediate attention versus dropping all of our development time to concentrate on a rather small issue although I am sure you consider it of the highest priority. I am happy you found another distro who serves your needs I wish you well with it and adios.

Tom

:punk:
 

krzykat

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It was just pointed out that almost no one uses fax detect with DID's being so cheap.

Not true. There are times when your customer has a number that is used as regular and fax and it is printed as such on their letterhead and other items. You can't simply tell these clients - Nope - you need to change the way you do business.

What version of SpanDSP is FreePBX using vs PIAF ?
 

wardmundy

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:oops:
L_16115.jpg
 

wardmundy

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koreyb: The circular reference was because I (actually) remembered someone posting a fax detection solution that worked with PIAF despite my dozen or so postings indicating (for years) that it didn't.

The solution you posted (above) indicates that fax detection works under certain circumstances within FreePBX but doesn't work in others. Keep in mind that FreePBX manages PIAF incoming and outgoing calls, period. The solution you posted and the problem you're having both point to FreePBX internal code.

Let's assume we were talking about something other than phones and someone read you the paragraph above. How exactly would you diagnose the problem other than to point to FreePBX?? "Works for us" is fine to say, but the question is why. Right?

If there is a difference in SpanDSP versions between PIAF and the FreePBX Distro, that may be a possibility but, other than that, the bony finger still points to internal FreePBX code. It certainly looks to be a timing problem, but fixing it is another matter (internal to FreePBX).
 

krzykat

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Yeah, I've had no issues with Faxes in the past (despite many readings of others that have issues) ... maybe carrier, maybe internet connection ?? BUT ... I have found differences with 2 boxes where one detects faxes very well, and the other doesn't. Looking into what is different in these two PIAF installs made me question the SpanDSP module:

Old PIAF box detects faxes perfectly:
PIAF 2.0.6.2
FreePBX 2.10.1.16
Asterisk 1.8.13.0
Dahdi 2.6.1
Libpri 1.4.12
Centos 6.2
Fax show version shows Spandsp Fax Driver: 20100830 183516

New PIAF box detects faxes irregularly (less than half the time):
PIAF 2.0.6.4
FreePBX 2.11.0.30
Asterisk Version 11.3.0
Dahdi 2.6.2
Libpri 1.4.12
Centos 6.4
Fax show version shows Spandsp Fax Driver: 20091228 123351

I find it odd that the newer PIAF has an older SpanDSP ???
 

james

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Faxing is 80% voodoo, 1% knowledge and 19% luck.
It is one of those things that works perfect and you don't know why, or doesn't work and you don't know why.

If you fax over VOIP without t.38 you're going to loose some hair.
If you fax over VOIP with t.38 you still may lose hair.

The success or failure has a lot to do with environment. If you can get it to reliably work on one platform and reliably fail on another platform in the same environment then it is the platform. If you can't get it to work regardless of the platform it's the environment.

Sounds like this is a case of the platforms, where all the other "faxing posts over the years" may have been one or the other.

Really for faxing I am a fan of a real modem (Multi-tech) with Hylafax over goof old fashion pots lines...
 

james

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wardmundy the response to your users should never be "suck it" or "don't let the door hit you" to a valid bug.
 

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