Bonding 2 DSL connections

[angoyr]

Hello All,

Has anybody worked with bonding two or more DSL connection into one? If so, what is the best router to use for this.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Robin.

 

[Boolah]

You will not be able to achieve true bonding without the cooperation of your DSL provider.

The best you could hope for without the cooperation of your ISP is either failover (if one DSL lines goes down everything switches over to the other DSL line) or aggregation.

Failover with two DSL lines from the same provider is kind of pointless. You have to figure that if one lines goes down, so will the other.

Aggregation will allow similar functionality to round robin DNS queries. One connection will go out one DSL line #1, the next connection will go out DSL line #2, the third connection will go out DSL line #1, and so on.

Both of these scenarios can be accomplished with pfsense. There are several routers out there which will do this as well (Linksys, Draytek, Zywall to name a few).

 

[jmullinix]

Don't forget that you will need to address sip_nat.conf file changes when you switch from one outside IP to another, if you are using SIP.

 

[angoyr]

Boolah,

Thanks for your quick response.
You are correct. Failover would be pointless with the same provider.
What we really want is a solution whereby two 256k connections would give us 512k. Both lines are from the same provider. We're just looking to get more bandwidth in a country where the 512k connection is four times the cost of a 256k connection. I don't understand how they could justify that, but that's the why we it is. That why we say, "God bless America"

Anyhow, when I think about pfsense, I'm wondering how could that be accomplished if the DSL connection comes in on a phone line. Would I still need a DSL router for each connection? I guess I'm looking at it from the wrong perspective.

Linksys, Draytek or Zywall may be the simpler solution, considering the size of the operation.

Thanks.

 

[angoyr]

John,
I started to reply to Boolah's post then I got carried away reading the pfsense wiki.

Anyhow that's a good point. I didn't even think of that. I hope I can count on you when I get to that point.

Robin.

 

[Boolah]

You'd still need a DSL modem for each of your connections. Most DSL modems nowadays come with a built in router, but all will come with at least a bridge. If you get a router, you should be able to put it into bridge mode and simply connect it to a NIC or WAN port on router.

How many simultaneous conversations do you need to support? If you don't need more than 8 simultaneous conversations, and assuming the 256k DSL line will be dedicated to voip only, you could theoretically squeeze 8 calls into that line using g729.

In all honesty, I do not think aggregation is a practical solution for this. Even though it may be possible, it will almost certainly cause headaches.

 

[angoyr]

Boolah,

Thanks again for your very informative response. The lines will be for VoIP only, but for some reason, the conversations start to breakup after the second call, especially when using the free hamachi VPN. Drop the VPN and connect straight IAX2 and 4 calls seem to be much better.

Bottomline. We would really like to have 8 simultaneous calls from each location. Another question is: Can two (2) calls go out on a single pots line that has 3 way calling? That would really save some bucks if it is possible.

Robin.

 

[Boolah]

If calls are breaking up after you reach 2/4 simultaneous conversations [using g729 and a dedicated 256k line], it's either a network issue or underpowered hardware someplace. What kind of hardware are you running PiaF on? What kind of routers are you currently using? Have you tested your Internet connection for packet loss, latency, jitter, etc?

Two separate calls cannot go out a single POTS line.

 

[Reddog]

I would not bother bonding internet connections. We have paid the commercial support people at Pfsense to build a test rig using two different ISPs and it was not that great. It was fun, but there was no huge benefit to doing it for telephony.

If you are looking for reliability and redundancy in a business environment then get ADSL/VOIP and standard Telco lines (from different providers), the failover is there, plus the cheap rates of VOIP. Bonding two internet connections very rarely provides redundancy unless you have money to burn ($5000 per month for dual fiber connections or something crazy like that).

 

[angoyr]

Reddog,

That's a jaw dropper. I did a lot of reading about pfsense yesterday and I was impressed with all of the fetures. I find it hard to believe that they couldn't satisfy your need. Could you imagine me trying to configure that all by muself.
Anyhow, it's a very small operation and there is only one phone company for pots lines and xDSL. There is also a wireless provider but the quality is very very poor for VoIP. Not much of a choice.

Boolah,

I really need to take some time and become familiar with the testing tools available out there. The problem with the providers in the subject country is that they would try to behead you if you tell them that you're not getting the speed expected.
The routers in use are dLinks. I don.t know the exact model numbers but I can get that if it's needed.

I think what I'll do is, get 2 internet connections and do as you suggested earlier. Figure out how to send the calls out in round robin fashion.

Thanks again guys.
I couldn't have done it without you.

Have a great day.

 

[Boolah]

Another option you might consider, depending on how you're going to use the lines, is use one DSL connection for incoming calls only. The second DSL connection could be used exclusively for outgoing calls.

 

[angoyr]

Boolah,

The lines would be used strictly for incoming connections. The calls leave our server in the USA and goes to the PIAF box in a very small third world country, then out through the pots lines or GSM gateway.

That works at the moment, but they want to branch out to more locations.

Thanks again,

RobinA

 

[jeremywillden]

Use a separate IAX2 trunk through each connection

In this installation, it sounds like using two separate IAX2 trunks would be an option. You'd need to add kernel routes to force them each to go out the different connections (using two OpenVPN or Hamachi tunnels would simplify that, or possibly lartc.org would be of some help). Set the limit to 3 or 4 calls on each of the two trunks.

I know I've done a lot of handwaving here, but I believe it's possible.

 

[termy_pe]

dsl problem...

I had a problem with dsl in 3rd world country its really slow. I had to pay 300$ a month for a microwave/wimax solution. They must be a provider that sales to internet cafe/callshop. Ask them what they are using. Beleive me, that have bandwith down there, they must have a solution for 8 port callshop.

Try g723 also, let you squeeze more calls in. One friend of mine got 70 calls at 723 on a 512k. He pays 1200$ a month for that. A system like you inbound and outbound on gsm.

Oh, yes. I had a problem on the inbound call to. It was choppy on the first channel. Try to make the calls come out of the 3world to the usa. To see if theres a difference. I had numbers from LES and all the calls coming in from les did was choppy. I went fighting for 3 weeks with the supplier until I realise that the problem was LES the rtp or something is 2 and in other country is 3.

 

[angoyr]

Well, that's a lot to chew on. First off, thanks for the responses. It's a lot to consider. I can use two IAX2 connections, no problem. I need to have a VPN with whatever protocol I use. I tried the free Hamachi but that is slower than the bare IAX. I would like to try OpenVPN but that seems a bit complicated. The information at lartc.org wasn't much help to me. Couldn't find anything there that I could use.

termy_pe mentioned 70 calls on a 512k connection using g723 really got my attention. I'll try g723 and see what happens.

Unless you get dedicated satellite connections in a third world country, you're wasting money. They oversell a single circuit and don't listen to your complaints because they know you don't have much of a choice. I connected to a 512k satellite connection once and couldn't even get 1 good call.

If anyone knows of a good HowTo on OpenVPN, please share.

Thanks again for the feedback.

RobinA

 

[Gibran27703]

Robin -

Funny I was looking into the same thing for a friend of mine with two DSL lines from AT&T, he wanted to view his video surveillance from home and needed the combined throughput.

Combining two DSL lines is almost always impossible when it comes to providers, no technically just administratively and less support tickets to their Call Center.

You have couple of options, but you need a smart router to accomplish both, a Cisco 2600 or 1700 with three interface will suffice. These boxes are cheap now days, hit ebay or CraigsList.

Option 1 - Assuming both dsl circuits terminate on the provider router, you can enable per-packet load-balancing. This helps but probably not the best for VoIP packet, this method tends to introduce out of order packets.

OPtion 2 - Same cheap router, but must have two source IP addresses. You create a policy route map, assign one IP to DSL-1 and the other IP to DSL-2. Both DSL lines can back each other out.

If you want more details or help with setup, ping me offline. Of course no charge for PBX members

Nabil

 

[Gibran27703]

Robin -

Funny I was looking into the same thing for a friend of mine with two DSL lines from AT&T, he wanted to view his video surveillance from home and needed the combined throughput.

Combining two DSL lines is almost always impossible when it comes to providers, no technically just administratively and less support tickets to their Call Center.

You have couple of options, but you need a smart router to accomplish both, a Cisco 2600 or 1700 with three interface will suffice. These boxes are cheap now days, hit ebay or CraigsList.

Option 1 - Assuming both dsl circuits terminate on the provider router, you can enable per-packet load-balancing. This helps but probably not the best for VoIP packet, this method tends to introduce out of order packets.

OPtion 2 - Same cheap router, but must have two source IP addresses. You create a policy route map, assign one IP to DSL-1 and the other IP to DSL-2. Both DSL lines can back each other out.

If you want more details or help with setup, ping me offline. Of course no charge for PBX members

Nabil

It has been a while since I screwed with Policy route maps. I just realized you can set the condition on the policy map based on extended fields, destination IP and protocols. So essentially you can have single source and multiple destination. I might have to reconfirm this feature on the 2600, but am 99 percent it works fine on this model.

Nabi

 

[angoyr]

Nabi,
Thanks for the info and the offer. I may take you up on it. It depends on what my contact wants to do. They move real slow in those third world countries. He's still waiting on an installation date for the first DSL connection.

I was looking for a DSL modem the other day and I stumbled across a beautiful DUAL WAN router by Intellinet Networks. That looks like the answer to my prayers. It has everything. Even a VPN server. INTELLELLELLINET NETWORK SOLOLUTIONS™ Dual WAN VPN Router, Model 524049.
Look it up and let me know how it stacks up to the Cisco.

Robin.

 

[Gibran27703]

Hello Robin -

I just noticed your posting, it has been a while since I visited and not tracking this thread for notification.

I looked at the device below, it's really a nice box. It's like a router on steroids Sadly it will not do per packet load-balancing, but it does do WRR. If you have the time and the option to return it just in case, I would give a go.

In our case, we ended up with cable service 7X1.5 for a little more money.

Nabil

Nabi,
Thanks for the info and the offer. I may take you up on it. It depends on what my contact wants to do. They move real slow in those third world countries. He's still waiting on an installation date for the first DSL connection.

I was looking for a DSL modem the other day and I stumbled across a beautiful DUAL WAN router by Intellinet Networks. That looks like the answer to my prayers. It has everything. Even a VPN server. INTELLELLELLINET NETWORK SOLOLUTIONS™ Dual WAN VPN Router, Model 524049.
Look it up and let me know how it stacks up to the Cisco.

Robin.

 

[angoyr]

Nabil,

Thanks again for your input. That part of the project is still under consideration. I have to wait for them to give me the go ahead. They do not have cable internet in that area. So it's just the DSL for now.

Robin.