ALERT Beware the Ides of March

billsimon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2011
Messages
1,540
Reaction score
729
Free + loads of work + patching + annoying speculation concerning the End Times of Google Voice != Free

briankelly63 you'll note that none of the major (or any, for that matter) VoIP projects has put forward any effort to rework their Google Voice support to handle either OAUTH2 (as ObiHai has done to make their devices more secure with regards to GV login) or Hangouts. It's a programming effort and no one wants to put forth the work when the end could always be right around the corner. Priorities, indeed!
 

MGD4me

Guru
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
505
Reaction score
109
The trouble is... people like FREE. :piggy:

Even if they have to spend countless hours or days trying to get it to work!! Their time doesn't seem to be worth anything either. Too funny!
 
Joined
Nov 14, 2008
Messages
1,398
Reaction score
320
These days it costs less than 50 cents for an hour long domestic call. I would argue that Google voice is not really "free". When used beyond it's standard setup the "cost" is the countless hours that are spent getting it to work or keeping up with the surprise changes that Google makes once it is "working". I'd say the cost is shifted.

I just think the time can be better spent by the community. After all these years I'm still amazed at some of the things that either aren't part of Asterisk or part of the GUI's and tools.

While soap boxing I'd say that there are a few things that bug me. Google voice is one, requests for support that don't include details or logs and members that clearly know next to nothing but are apparently installing business critical systems to unknowing customers. That can give VOIP and Asterisk a bad reputation.
 

wardmundy

Nerd Uno
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
19,201
Reaction score
5,221
Free + loads of work + patching + annoying speculation concerning the End Times of Google Voice != Free

briankelly63 you'll note that none of the major (or any, for that matter) VoIP projects has put forward any effort to rework their Google Voice support to handle either OAUTH2 (as ObiHai has done to make their devices more secure with regards to GV login) or Hangouts. It's a programming effort and no one wants to put forth the work when the end could always be right around the corner. Priorities, indeed!


Might have something to do with the fact that the employers of most of the open source Asterisk programmers just happen to make money selling SIP trunks. Could just be a coincidence, of course.
 

Jay Deal

Phhhhhhhhttttttt :)
Joined
Dec 26, 2013
Messages
267
Reaction score
85
While soap boxing I'd say that there are a few things that bug me. Google voice is one, requests for support that don't include details or logs and members that clearly no next to nothing but are apparently installing business critical systems to unknowing customers. That can give VOIP and Asterisk a bad reputation.


While I don't work in VOIP or know anyone that does, I would like to say that many people don't have the benefit of a proper education in what they end up doing as a hobby or for that matter what they do for a living - it's trial by fire and learning by failure. If their lucky, they don't get anybody harmed or cause major disasters. And the sad thing is, some of those folks might be in essence holding your life in their hands whether it's fixing your car, driving your bus or making sure your call goes through.
 
Joined
Nov 14, 2008
Messages
1,398
Reaction score
320
People take many different paths to learning, my issue is with those who jump into something far beyond their expertise instead of starting small. Sometimes a great opportunity just falls in your lap but for the good of the client you may have to sacrifice some profit and bring in some help to insure success.

There are the over cautious and the under cautious. In a funny way that is another way of describing those who are in Sales and those who are in the technical side of the business. Somewhere in the middle of the two viewpoints is the best place to hammer out the details of a project.
 

wardmundy

Nerd Uno
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
19,201
Reaction score
5,221
We plan to get to home automation as well. Just a lot going on at the moment but this year for sure. We have a house full of the "stuff" so we're definitely interested in bringing it under the tent.
 

kenn10

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
3,779
Reaction score
2,192
I would certainly like to see Asterisk/HomeSeer integration as an add-on. Asterisk already has sounds for HA, but I haven't seen much integration between it and any of the major HA systems.
 

synack

Guru
Joined
Dec 31, 2013
Messages
227
Reaction score
56
While I find home automation to be pretty cool, I haven't yet decided if it's important enough for me to allocate my time to it. I suspect the lack of development in this area suggests I'm not alone.

Having wifi lights or auto open/closing blinds etc is certainly cool, but I personally feel would be a short lived novelty.
What I would need is an item I could not live without once I had it. I'm not aware of anything currently in the Home automation market that would fit that bill for me.
 

MGD4me

Guru
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
505
Reaction score
109
What I would need is an item I could not live without once I had it.

When I was young, I said that about sex too... well, here I am!

I currently do a lot of travelling and have had an X10 timer/controller turning various lights on and off at home. This works very, when it works. I had a couple of power outages that lasted longer than the back-up battery, so after the power came back on the internal clock would start counting from 12:00. Yes, the lights would all operate at the set clock time, but the actual time was offset by many hours. Not great.

More recently I purchased a WiFi monitored thermostat so that I could drop the house temperature when I left on a trip, then crank it back to normal before heading home from wherever. It also reads the inside and outside temperatures, so I can be assured that the furnace is still working. Once you get used to having one, it's hard to give up.

I personally don't have a need to automatically open and close the blinds or drapes either, as retrofitting these now would cost a small fortune. But, if they were already in place, I probably would take advantage of that feature.

We already have the technology to remotely monitor home alarm systems, and get an SMS or email message of an alarm condition. So I do foresee the "industry" (not sure which one!) will eventually catch up to "the need".
 

MGD4me

Guru
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
505
Reaction score
109
In fact there is no damn reason why any modern fridge that already has a circuit board can't provide this info

Yep, that feature would be great too!! Last year I came home after being away for a month, and the fridge had packed it in at least two weeks earlier. It wasn't a pleasant sight (or smell). Had I known, or been alerted, I could have called someone to check it for me, to at least empty out the contents of the fridge "while the evidence was still fresh"!!

I kinda forgot about that until you reminded me...
 

synack

Guru
Joined
Dec 31, 2013
Messages
227
Reaction score
56
Yes, I believe that there are niche uses for the technology.
I personally don't require any of them. The market shows that I'm still in the majority.
For instance:
It's easier for me to lean over and turn on the lamp next to the couch, than to go find my wifi enabled phone/tablet/device to bring up the web interface to do so. But for those that travel regularly, whom do not have someone at home anyway, would find it useful to have that level of control.

As for a thermostat, I have a digital one I picked up from home depot for about 30 bucks that lets me set temps by day/time and runs completely off battery (that I have yet to change) Sure it's missing external temps and possible notifications and remote access, but with the -10c weather I get here, I pretty much know right away when the furnace/ac is not working and I can set a manual temp before I go anywhere for extended periods.
Again, your solution is great if you need it. I, and many others can live just fine without it.

example of something I could not live without:
Cell phone: The combination of instant information and communication makes this, by far, my most needed "device"
I dropped my phone once, and the repair was going to take a week. I couldn't wait that long so I opted to buy a new $700 phone out of contract...

I totally agree that the industry will eventually catch up and all of our devices will eventually be IoT devices. It's written in the stars.
BUT the current lack of a compelling driving force will keep development at a snails pace. Heck home automation has been in the consumer space for what? 15 years at least? Very little has changed since then.

I would love nothing more for acceleration in this space, but again, I have no good answer to the question "why?"
Please don't use my arguments to stifle development. I'm only pointing out why currently there is a lack of interest.
 

synack

Guru
Joined
Dec 31, 2013
Messages
227
Reaction score
56
Automation and controls is a mature industry for non-residential occupancies. I have zero interest in reaching for a tablet/phone to turn lights on, to me that is stupid. Automation shines when you have:
  1. sufficient monitoring and logging to accumulate and centralize data
  2. the ability to process the data into useful reports
  3. someone who can understand what they are looking at when viewing reports
I feel like I should be able to spend a reasonable amount of money and know exactly how many hours my refrigerator ran last year, how much energy it consumed and if consumption is in line with published data or if it requires service. No reason why the system couldn't alert me if energy usage spikes or falls outside normal patterns. In fact there is no damn reason why any modern fridge that already has a circuit board can't provide this info without a proprietary interface or an service call. Same goes for every other appliance and device that uses energy. The data can be used to determine the length of payback if purchasing more efficient replacements. The other big win is sensing that can be used to control multiple systems. A motion sensor can turn on a light, that's simple. I want a vacancy sensor that detects a lack of motion over a certain time then turns off lights and AC. With enough vacancy sensors, your phone system will know whether to ring an internal ring group or forward calls to another destination. If my alarm is set, every system (lighting, heating, cooling, phone) can automatically shift to unoccupied mode. My programmable thermostat will bring heat on in the morning, but it doesn't account for holidays, won't self correct for DST and won't control other systems such as lighting. To do everything I have listed above, there is zero hope of a 100% open system and the costs would add 25% to the cost of an average house, probably more.

You bring up some good points, but for the average person, I don't think they could wrap their heads around that sort of thing. My parents still can't program time on their VCR... (yes they still have one)
 

wardmundy

Nerd Uno
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
19,201
Reaction score
5,221
I probably could have bought a new car for what I've spent wasted on X10 devices. The theory was great, but they were totally incompatible with appliances found in modern homes, e.g. refrigerators and dryers. Bought every filter and gizmo which promised to solve the X10 deficiencies. The combination of a dryer and a refrigerator and a house on more than one main circuit rendered X10 a completely worthless technology at least for us. Nothing ever worked reliably. Anybody want some? I've got drawers full of the :001 9898:

Going to be much more careful this time around. Thus far I've got 3 dimmable LED floodlights in one hallway. On and off work normally with a normal light switch (+1). They work reasonably well with the Wink app on a cellphone to control/dim the lights from anywhere(+1)... unless the electricity happens to go off (-½). Then the Wink controller goes out to lunch about half the time when the power comes back on. And I'm still wondering why I need to turn on/off/dim much of anything when I'm away from the house (+0).

So... I'm still waiting on the magic bullet that scores a solid 3. Right now, the technology is right up there with Google Glass in my book.
 

Asher

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
89
Reaction score
14
I don't want my fridge on the internet. I don't need usage data from my appliances. I can look at mt electric and gas bill and figure out if usage is out of whack. A few years back, I bought the closest thing to useful home automation as I want at this point. A programmable switch for my outside lights. Programmed it once. On at 0530, off at sunrise. On at sunset, off at 2300. Have not touched it since. I guess I could have spent more on a wifi enabled automation system, and used my phone or laptop to turn the lights off in the morning and back on as I'm driving home in the dark in winter. But a $20 switch was all it really took.
 

synack

Guru
Joined
Dec 31, 2013
Messages
227
Reaction score
56
Darn you lgaetz... Now you have me thinking. An Avr processor, 802.11b/g wifi module and relay could be made for ~$60.. hook that up to your furnace and interface to your AiaF server... instant smart programmable furnace controller. Wifi LED bulbs both inside and outside could have cheap temp sensors in them that feeds the server temperature data from around the house. The AVR could be equipped with a backup battery and an RTC in case of power failure and could be programmed by the server in case the server or wifi crashes...
A hall effect current sensor in-line with appliance plugs to sense power usage... I wouldn't want to entertain power control of appliances. but simple devices like lamps might be ok.
Fully wifi would get to be too expensive, xbee protocols or similar may suffice if done right. could slice the price in half.

Additionally, fully assembled hardware would need certification. How many people would be comfortable doing it "DIY"
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
25,812
Messages
167,760
Members
19,240
Latest member
nikko
Get 3CX - Absolutely Free!

Link up your team and customers Phone System Live Chat Video Conferencing

Hosted or Self-managed. Up to 10 users free forever. No credit card. Try risk free.

3CX
A 3CX Account with that email already exists. You will be redirected to the Customer Portal to sign in or reset your password if you've forgotten it.
Top